I am very familiar with the sexual organs of your sister

[Nigee]

More from The Lost Orwell:

In Down and Out in Paris and London (pp 178-9) Orwell discusses
swearing and how swear words "can change character by crossing a
frontier."

"Or, as another example, take the word 'barnshoot' - a corruption of
the Hindu-stani word bahinchut*. A vile and unforgivable insult in
India, this word is a piece of gentle badinage in England."

*The footnote in DAOIPAL runs thus: "The French translation has this
note (in French): A word for which there is no precise equivalent in
French. In Hindustani, bahin means 'sister' and chut 'the sexual
organ'. To call someone bahinchut is to remind him gratuitously that
you are on the most intimate terms with his sister. Barnshoot is the
same word corrupted by the English soldiers who brought it back to
England; it has completely lost its original meaning."

The Lost Orwell includes a series of letters between Orwell and his
French translator R.N. Raimbault. Orwell's letter of 9 October 1934
(p.9) contains his explanations of English swearing and, in particular,
of the meaning of Bahinchut which helped produce said footnote.

"'Bahinchut' etc. Bahinchut' is a Hindustani word the one should never
address to a Hindu but which, unfortunately, one uses rather often. It
is quite difficult to translate. 'Bahin' means sister and 'chut' means
the sexual organ. By saying 'Bahinchut' to a man you are saying 'I am
very familiar with the sexual organs of your sister' - in other words,
I have slept with her. One would perhaps be able to translate
'bahinchut' as 'brother-in-law'. The English soldiers brought
this word home from India in the form 'barnshoot', which has been
accepted as quite an innocent word in England."

There is a lot more in the letter about 'fuck' and 'bugger' and
'bull shit' to interest afficianados of swearing but this was worth
posting on account of the *legitimate* subject line alone.

N

[g***@email.com]

Post by Nigee
In Down and Out in Paris and London (pp 178-9) Orwell discusses
swearing and how swear words "can change character by crossing a
frontier."
"Or, as another example, take the word 'barnshoot' - a corruption of
the Hindu-stani word bahinchut*. A vile and unforgivable insult in
India, this word is a piece of gentle badinage in England."
*The footnote in DAOIPAL runs thus: "The French translation has this
note (in French): A word for which there is no precise equivalent in
French. In Hindustani, bahin means 'sister' and chut 'the sexual
organ'. To call someone bahinchut is to remind him gratuitously that
you are on the most intimate terms with his sister. Barnshoot is the
same word corrupted by the English soldiers who brought it back to
England; it has completely lost its original meaning."
The Lost Orwell includes a series of letters between Orwell and his
French translator R.N. Raimbault. Orwell's letter of 9 October 1934
(p.9) contains his explanations of English swearing and, in particular,
of the meaning of Bahinchut which helped produce said footnote.
"'Bahinchut' etc. Bahinchut' is a Hindustani word the one should never
address to a Hindu but which, unfortunately, one uses rather often. It
is quite difficult to translate. 'Bahin' means sister and 'chut' means
the sexual organ. By saying 'Bahinchut' to a man you are saying 'I am
very familiar with the sexual organs of your sister' - in other words,
I have slept with her. One would perhaps be able to translate
'bahinchut' as 'brother-in-law'. The English soldiers brought
this word home from India in the form 'barnshoot', which has been
accepted as quite an innocent word in England."
There is a lot more in the letter about 'fuck' and 'bugger' and
'bull shit' to interest afficianados of swearing but this was worth
posting on account of the *legitimate* subject line alone.
N

The 'chute' in 'bahinchut really makes one do a double-take.
English and Hindustani both being Indo-European languages, perhaps
there is a linguistic connection. ok, that is quite a leap. Barnshoot
is a word I had never heard of until I read it in this chapter of
daoipal. Here Orwell also tries to explain about the 'whole
business' of swearing, not entirely successfully. It *is* difficult
to explain and equally so to translate, and moreover as he puts it,
"can change character by crossing a frontier." Another leap: a
favourite movie of mine, Amores perros, was on one of the french
channels here a little while ago, titled Amours chiennes. In english
it's usually called Love's a Bitch - giving it that special bitter
feeling only the word 'bitch' can evoke - yet it could just as
easily be called Love's a dog, which is closer in literal meaning to
the spanish. The problems of translation are interesting - je m'en
fous for the *legitimate* subject line :-) but 'fuck' perhaps has
crossed over many frontiers somewhat intact. I don't know, but maybe.
It is not rare to hear it said on french tv, for instance. Well, it
doesn't even mean in english what it means but it seems to have
(some) impact in many languages.
B.

[Nigee]

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Nigee
In Down and Out in Paris and London (pp 178-9) Orwell discusses
swearing and how swear words "can change character by crossing a
frontier."
"Or, as another example, take the word 'barnshoot' - a corruption of
the Hindu-stani word bahinchut*. A vile and unforgivable insult in
India, this word is a piece of gentle badinage in England."
*The footnote in DAOIPAL runs thus: "The French translation has this
note (in French): A word for which there is no precise equivalent in
French. In Hindustani, bahin means 'sister' and chut 'the sexual
organ'. To call someone bahinchut is to remind him gratuitously that
you are on the most intimate terms with his sister. Barnshoot is the
same word corrupted by the English soldiers who brought it back to
England; it has completely lost its original meaning."
The Lost Orwell includes a series of letters between Orwell and his
French translator R.N. Raimbault. Orwell's letter of 9 October 1934
(p.9) contains his explanations of English swearing and, in particular,
of the meaning of Bahinchut which helped produce said footnote.
"'Bahinchut' etc. Bahinchut' is a Hindustani word the one should never
address to a Hindu but which, unfortunately, one uses rather often. It
is quite difficult to translate. 'Bahin' means sister and 'chut' means
the sexual organ. By saying 'Bahinchut' to a man you are saying 'I am
very familiar with the sexual organs of your sister' - in other words,
I have slept with her. One would perhaps be able to translate
'bahinchut' as 'brother-in-law'. The English soldiers brought
this word home from India in the form 'barnshoot', which has been
accepted as quite an innocent word in England."
There is a lot more in the letter about 'fuck' and 'bugger' and
'bull shit' to interest afficianados of swearing but this was worth
posting on account of the *legitimate* subject line alone.
N

The 'chute' in 'bahinchut really makes one do a double-take.
English and Hindustani both being Indo-European languages, perhaps
there is a linguistic connection. ok, that is quite a leap. Barnshoot
is a word I had never heard of until I read it in this chapter of
daoipal. Here Orwell also tries to explain about the 'whole
business' of swearing, not entirely successfully. It *is* difficult
to explain and equally so to translate, and moreover as he puts it,
"can change character by crossing a frontier." Another leap: a
favourite movie of mine, Amores perros, was on one of the french
channels here a little while ago, titled Amours chiennes. In english
it's usually called Love's a Bitch - giving it that special bitter
feeling only the word 'bitch' can evoke - yet it could just as
easily be called Love's a dog, which is closer in literal meaning to
the spanish. The problems of translation are interesting - je m'en
fous for the *legitimate* subject line :-) but 'fuck' perhaps has
crossed over many frontiers somewhat intact. I don't know, but maybe.
It is not rare to hear it said on french tv, for instance. Well, it
doesn't even mean in english what it means but it seems to have
(some) impact in many languages.
B.

I have never come across 'Barnshoot' anywhere else either, neither
written nor overheard, or not as far as I can remember.

Btw ROBBIE did post the Spectator Review of The Lost Orwell on here
back in May 06 and I do agree with the reviewer that these letters
between Orwell and Raimbault are "amusing and weirdly courtly" though
they come to an end in sadness, with the death of Raimbault's daughter
and Orwell's condolences.

http://www.tiny.cc/NnA9p

N

[Martha Bridegam]

Nigee wrote:
....

Post by Nigee
I have never come across 'Barnshoot' anywhere else either, neither
written nor overheard, or not as far as I can remember.
Btw ROBBIE did post the Spectator Review of The Lost Orwell on here
back in May 06 and I do agree with the reviewer that these letters
between Orwell and Raimbault are "amusing and weirdly courtly" though
they come to an end in sadness, with the death of Raimbault's daughter
and Orwell's condolences.
http://www.tiny.cc/NnA9p
N

Glad somebody came up with "weirdly courtly." That's kind of the phrase
I wanted, esp. for the Raimbault side of the correspondence.

There's also maybe a little Beavis & Butthead enthusiasm for writing
dirty words. (Hehheh, cool, he said "chut"!) Helps to remember I guess
that writing rude words had consequences in England then -- IIRC
Orwell's own library was raided at one point though they gave back his
Joyce and Miller on the reasoning that a writer might need such things
as technical equipment without actually enjoying them. Consequences do
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.

/M

[Nigee]

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by Nigee
I have never come across 'Barnshoot' anywhere else either, neither
written nor overheard, or not as far as I can remember.
Btw ROBBIE did post the Spectator Review of The Lost Orwell on here
back in May 06 and I do agree with the reviewer that these letters
between Orwell and Raimbault are "amusing and weirdly courtly" though
they come to an end in sadness, with the death of Raimbault's daughter
and Orwell's condolences.
http://www.tiny.cc/NnA9p
N

Glad somebody came up with "weirdly courtly." That's kind of the phrase
I wanted, esp. for the Raimbault side of the correspondence.
There's also maybe a little Beavis & Butthead enthusiasm for writing
dirty words. (Hehheh, cool, he said "chut"!)

Heh heh

Helps to remember I guess

Post by Martha Bridegam
that writing rude words had consequences in England then -- IIRC
Orwell's own library was raided at one point though they gave back his
Joyce and Miller on the reasoning that a writer might need such things
as technical equipment without actually enjoying them.

CEJL I p 449. Letter to Victor Gollancz from Wallington 8 January
1940:

"Dear Mr Gollancz

I cannot at this moment lend you Tropic of Cancer, because my copy has
been seized. While I was writing my last book two detectives suddenly
arrived at my house with orders from the public prosecutor to seize all
books which I had 'received through the post'. A letter of mine
addressed to the Obelisk Press had been seized and opened in the post.
The police were only carrying out orders and were very nice about it,
and even the public prosecutor wrote and said that he understood that
as a writer I might have a need for books which it was illegal to
possess. On these grounds he sent me back certain books, e.g. Lady
Chatterley's Lover, but it appears that Miller's books have not been in
print long enough to become respectable."

WJ West, in 'The Larger Evils. Nineteen Eighty-Four - The Truth Behind
the Satire", uses this incident as the basis for his chapter 'A Raid in
the Country' and speculates that Orwell must have had some special
"pull" to avoid prosecution.

Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

[Martha Bridegam]

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by Nigee
I have never come across 'Barnshoot' anywhere else either, neither
written nor overheard, or not as far as I can remember.
Btw ROBBIE did post the Spectator Review of The Lost Orwell on here
back in May 06 and I do agree with the reviewer that these letters
between Orwell and Raimbault are "amusing and weirdly courtly" though
they come to an end in sadness, with the death of Raimbault's daughter
and Orwell's condolences.
http://www.tiny.cc/NnA9p
N

Glad somebody came up with "weirdly courtly." That's kind of the phrase
I wanted, esp. for the Raimbault side of the correspondence.
There's also maybe a little Beavis & Butthead enthusiasm for writing
dirty words. (Hehheh, cool, he said "chut"!)

Heh heh
Helps to remember I guess

Post by Martha Bridegam
that writing rude words had consequences in England then -- IIRC
Orwell's own library was raided at one point though they gave back his
Joyce and Miller on the reasoning that a writer might need such things
as technical equipment without actually enjoying them.

CEJL I p 449. Letter to Victor Gollancz from Wallington 8 January
"Dear Mr Gollancz
I cannot at this moment lend you Tropic of Cancer, because my copy has
been seized. While I was writing my last book two detectives suddenly
arrived at my house with orders from the public prosecutor to seize all
books which I had 'received through the post'. A letter of mine
addressed to the Obelisk Press had been seized and opened in the post.
The police were only carrying out orders and were very nice about it,
and even the public prosecutor wrote and said that he understood that
as a writer I might have a need for books which it was illegal to
possess. On these grounds he sent me back certain books, e.g. Lady
Chatterley's Lover, but it appears that Miller's books have not been in
print long enough to become respectable."
WJ West, in 'The Larger Evils. Nineteen Eighty-Four - The Truth Behind
the Satire", uses this incident as the basis for his chapter 'A Raid in
the Country' and speculates that Orwell must have had some special
"pull" to avoid prosecution.

Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Post by Nigee
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.

/M

[g***@email.com]

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by Nigee
I have never come across 'Barnshoot' anywhere else either, neither
written nor overheard, or not as far as I can remember.
Btw ROBBIE did post the Spectator Review of The Lost Orwell on here
back in May 06 and I do agree with the reviewer that these letters
between Orwell and Raimbault are "amusing and weirdly courtly" though
they come to an end in sadness, with the death of Raimbault's daughter
and Orwell's condolences.
http://www.tiny.cc/NnA9p
N

Glad somebody came up with "weirdly courtly." That's kind of the phrase
I wanted, esp. for the Raimbault side of the correspondence.
There's also maybe a little Beavis & Butthead enthusiasm for writing
dirty words. (Hehheh, cool, he said "chut"!)

Heh heh
Helps to remember I guess

Post by Martha Bridegam
that writing rude words had consequences in England then -- IIRC
Orwell's own library was raided at one point though they gave back his
Joyce and Miller on the reasoning that a writer might need such things
as technical equipment without actually enjoying them.

CEJL I p 449. Letter to Victor Gollancz from Wallington 8 January
"Dear Mr Gollancz
I cannot at this moment lend you Tropic of Cancer, because my copy has
been seized. While I was writing my last book two detectives suddenly
arrived at my house with orders from the public prosecutor to seize all
books which I had 'received through the post'. A letter of mine
addressed to the Obelisk Press had been seized and opened in the post.
The police were only carrying out orders and were very nice about it,
and even the public prosecutor wrote and said that he understood that
as a writer I might have a need for books which it was illegal to
possess. On these grounds he sent me back certain books, e.g. Lady
Chatterley's Lover, but it appears that Miller's books have not been in
print long enough to become respectable."
WJ West, in 'The Larger Evils. Nineteen Eighty-Four - The Truth Behind
the Satire", uses this incident as the basis for his chapter 'A Raid in
the Country' and speculates that Orwell must have had some special
"pull" to avoid prosecution.

Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Post by Nigee
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.
/M

Some recent Russian Headlines:
INVESTIGATIVE POETRY NOW THE NEW TEMPORARY POEM
POETS EXPLODING LIKE BOMBS
ACCEPTANCE OF GUILT IN THE NECESSARY POET

B.
please don't hate me...

[Martha Bridegam]

***@email.com wrote:
....

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Please scratch that & substitute "I'd thought they had given back his
Miller." Obscenity can be dandy but there's no excuse for bad grammar,
is there?

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Martha Bridegam
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.
/M

INVESTIGATIVE POETRY NOW THE NEW TEMPORARY POEM
POETS EXPLODING LIKE BOMBS
ACCEPTANCE OF GUILT IN THE NECESSARY POET
B.
please don't hate me...

Hate you? Hardly.

...then again, do you suppose a work like Akhmatova's "Requiem" counts
as investigative poetry?

/M

[g***@email.com]

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Please scratch that & substitute "I'd thought they had given back his
Miller." Obscenity can be dandy but there's no excuse for bad grammar,
is there?

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Martha Bridegam
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.
/M

INVESTIGATIVE POETRY NOW THE NEW TEMPORARY POEM
POETS EXPLODING LIKE BOMBS
ACCEPTANCE OF GUILT IN THE NECESSARY POET
B.
please don't hate me...

Hate you? Hardly.
...then again, do you suppose a work like Akhmatova's "Requiem" counts
as investigative poetry?
/M

It is odd that you mention Akhmatova...I've been re-doing the 'As I
Please' columnns for my site - sigh, yes, again - reformatting and
adding some missing paragraphs and so on, and today I did the one in
which Orwell speaks of her and of the literary purge going on in the
USSR at the time. He later mentions how "a writer's inventive
faculties will not work unless he is allowed to say approximately what
he feels." In one of Akhmatova's low moments she felt *approximately*
that she had to write lines like, "Where Stalin is, there too are
Freedom, Peace, and Earth's Grandeur." It was an attempt to get her
son out of the gulag. Didn't work - but here's a bit that does -

I fell at hangmen' feet - not once,
My womb and hell you're from.
All has been mixed up for all times,
And now I can't define
Who is a beast or man, at last,
And when they'll kill my son.
There're left just flowers under dust


B.
(ROUGH POETS STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON OUR BEHALF)

[Martha Bridegam]

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Please scratch that & substitute "I'd thought they had given back his
Miller." Obscenity can be dandy but there's no excuse for bad grammar,
is there?

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Martha Bridegam
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.
/M

INVESTIGATIVE POETRY NOW THE NEW TEMPORARY POEM
POETS EXPLODING LIKE BOMBS
ACCEPTANCE OF GUILT IN THE NECESSARY POET
B.
please don't hate me...

Hate you? Hardly.
...then again, do you suppose a work like Akhmatova's "Requiem" counts
as investigative poetry?
/M

It is odd that you mention Akhmatova...I've been re-doing the 'As I
Please' columnns for my site - sigh, yes, again - reformatting and
adding some missing paragraphs and so on, and today I did the one in
which Orwell speaks of her and of the literary purge going on in the
USSR at the time. He later mentions how "a writer's inventive
faculties will not work unless he is allowed to say approximately what
he feels." In one of Akhmatova's low moments she felt *approximately*
that she had to write lines like, "Where Stalin is, there too are
Freedom, Peace, and Earth's Grandeur." It was an attempt to get her
son out of the gulag. Didn't work - but here's a bit that does -
I fell at hangmen' feet - not once,
My womb and hell you're from.
All has been mixed up for all times,
And now I can't define
Who is a beast or man, at last,
And when they'll kill my son.
There're left just flowers under dust
B.
(ROUGH POETS STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON OUR BEHALF)

IN A TIME OF UNIVERSAL PROSE, WRITING POETRY IS A REVOLUTIONARY ACT.

/M

[g***@email.com]

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Please scratch that & substitute "I'd thought they had given back his
Miller." Obscenity can be dandy but there's no excuse for bad grammar,
is there?

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Martha Bridegam
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.
/M

INVESTIGATIVE POETRY NOW THE NEW TEMPORARY POEM
POETS EXPLODING LIKE BOMBS
ACCEPTANCE OF GUILT IN THE NECESSARY POET
B.
please don't hate me...

Hate you? Hardly.
...then again, do you suppose a work like Akhmatova's "Requiem" counts
as investigative poetry?
/M

It is odd that you mention Akhmatova...I've been re-doing the 'As I
Please' columnns for my site - sigh, yes, again - reformatting and
adding some missing paragraphs and so on, and today I did the one in
which Orwell speaks of her and of the literary purge going on in the
USSR at the time. He later mentions how "a writer's inventive
faculties will not work unless he is allowed to say approximately what
he feels." In one of Akhmatova's low moments she felt *approximately*
that she had to write lines like, "Where Stalin is, there too are
Freedom, Peace, and Earth's Grandeur." It was an attempt to get her
son out of the gulag. Didn't work - but here's a bit that does -
I fell at hangmen' feet - not once,
My womb and hell you're from.
All has been mixed up for all times,
And now I can't define
Who is a beast or man, at last,
And when they'll kill my son.
There're left just flowers under dust
B.
(ROUGH POETS STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON OUR BEHALF)

IN A TIME OF UNIVERSAL PROSE, WRITING POETRY IS A REVOLUTIONARY ACT.
/M

Manifesto-icant...

And here is another poem by Akhmatova, just in case it's needed.

Twenty-first night. Monday.
Silhouette of the capital in darkness.
Some good-for-nothing--who knows why--
made up the tale that loves exists on earth.

People believe it, maybe from laziness
or boredom, and live accordingly:
they wait eagerly for meetings,
fear parting, and when they sing,
they sing about love...

But the secret reveals itself to some
and on them, the silence settles down.
I found this out by accident
and now it seems I'm sick all the time.

B.

[Nigee]

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Please scratch that & substitute "I'd thought they had given back his
Miller." Obscenity can be dandy but there's no excuse for bad grammar,
is there?

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Martha Bridegam
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.
/M

INVESTIGATIVE POETRY NOW THE NEW TEMPORARY POEM
POETS EXPLODING LIKE BOMBS
ACCEPTANCE OF GUILT IN THE NECESSARY POET
B.
please don't hate me...

Hate you? Hardly.
...then again, do you suppose a work like Akhmatova's "Requiem" counts
as investigative poetry?
/M

It is odd that you mention Akhmatova...I've been re-doing the 'As I
Please' columnns for my site - sigh, yes, again - reformatting and
adding some missing paragraphs and so on, and today I did the one in
which Orwell speaks of her and of the literary purge going on in the
USSR at the time. He later mentions how "a writer's inventive
faculties will not work unless he is allowed to say approximately what
he feels." In one of Akhmatova's low moments she felt *approximately*
that she had to write lines like, "Where Stalin is, there too are
Freedom, Peace, and Earth's Grandeur." It was an attempt to get her
son out of the gulag. Didn't work - but here's a bit that does -
I fell at hangmen' feet - not once,
My womb and hell you're from.
All has been mixed up for all times,
And now I can't define
Who is a beast or man, at last,
And when they'll kill my son.
There're left just flowers under dust
B.
(ROUGH POETS STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON OUR BEHALF)

That As I Please, 68, 3 January 1947 is a nice one. As well as the bit
you mention about literary purges it also includes The Tale of the
Custard-Pudding Thieving Steward and some seasonally topical thoughts
on how to get out of bed on a dark morning. He quotes the thoughts of
the Emperor Marcus Aurelius before going on to say:

"It is a good plan to print this well known exhortation in large
letters and hang it on the wall opposite your bed. And if that fails,
as I am told it sometimes does, another good plan is to buy the loudest
alarm clock you can get and place it in such a position that you have
to get out of bed and go round several pieces of furniture in order to
silence it."

Ah, that wry touch: "as I am told it sometimes does". Personally
speaking, I have found that the farming programme on the radio usually
contains enough discussion of matters weird and agricultural to bring
me to my senses going "Eh? What?". This is preferrable to the news,
which on the average day might just as well start with "Hey! Guess
what the dirty bastards have gone and done now!", to which the only
sensible response is to cower beneath the duvet.

The bit though on writers could be applicable anywhere with any set of
smelly-orthodoxies.

"The thing that politicians are seemingly unable to understand is that
you cannot produce a vigorous literature by terrorising everyone into
conformity. A writer's inventive faculties will not work unless he is
allowed to say approximately what he feels. You can destroy
spontaneity and produce a literature which is orthodox but feeble, or
you can let people say what they choose and take the risk that some of
them will utter heresies. There is no way out of that dilemma as long
as books have to be written by individuals."

N

[g***@email.com]

Post by Nigee

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam
Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Please scratch that & substitute "I'd thought they had given back his
Miller." Obscenity can be dandy but there's no excuse for bad grammar,
is there?

Post by g***@email.com

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Martha Bridegam
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.
/M

INVESTIGATIVE POETRY NOW THE NEW TEMPORARY POEM
POETS EXPLODING LIKE BOMBS
ACCEPTANCE OF GUILT IN THE NECESSARY POET
B.
please don't hate me...

Hate you? Hardly.
...then again, do you suppose a work like Akhmatova's "Requiem" counts
as investigative poetry?
/M

It is odd that you mention Akhmatova...I've been re-doing the 'As I
Please' columnns for my site - sigh, yes, again - reformatting and
adding some missing paragraphs and so on, and today I did the one in
which Orwell speaks of her and of the literary purge going on in the
USSR at the time. He later mentions how "a writer's inventive
faculties will not work unless he is allowed to say approximately what
he feels." In one of Akhmatova's low moments she felt *approximately*
that she had to write lines like, "Where Stalin is, there too are
Freedom, Peace, and Earth's Grandeur." It was an attempt to get her
son out of the gulag. Didn't work - but here's a bit that does -
I fell at hangmen' feet - not once,
My womb and hell you're from.
All has been mixed up for all times,
And now I can't define
Who is a beast or man, at last,
And when they'll kill my son.
There're left just flowers under dust
B.
(ROUGH POETS STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON OUR BEHALF)

That As I Please, 68, 3 January 1947 is a nice one. As well as the bit
you mention about literary purges it also includes The Tale of the
Custard-Pudding Thieving Steward and some seasonally topical thoughts
on how to get out of bed on a dark morning. He quotes the thoughts of
"It is a good plan to print this well known exhortation in large
letters and hang it on the wall opposite your bed. And if that fails,
as I am told it sometimes does, another good plan is to buy the loudest
alarm clock you can get and place it in such a position that you have
to get out of bed and go round several pieces of furniture in order to
silence it."
Ah, that wry touch: "as I am told it sometimes does". Personally
speaking, I have found that the farming programme on the radio usually
contains enough discussion of matters weird and agricultural to bring
me to my senses going "Eh? What?". This is preferrable to the news,
which on the average day might just as well start with "Hey! Guess
what the dirty bastards have gone and done now!", to which the only
sensible response is to cower beneath the duvet.
The bit though on writers could be applicable anywhere with any set of
smelly-orthodoxies.
"The thing that politicians are seemingly unable to understand is that
you cannot produce a vigorous literature by terrorising everyone into
conformity. A writer's inventive faculties will not work unless he is
allowed to say approximately what he feels. You can destroy
spontaneity and produce a literature which is orthodox but feeble, or
you can let people say what they choose and take the risk that some of
them will utter heresies. There is no way out of that dilemma as long
as books have to be written by individuals."
N

It is classic Orwell - if there be such a thing. One almost gets the
feeling of just having read a short story, with that "Tale of the
Custard-Pudding Thieving Steward" it's so Maugham-ish in style and
moral. But it's those scattering of wry remarks that really flavour
his work - just casually dropped in. It's not even that they make you
laugh - it's more satisfying, a bit of inner laughter that you can
revisit now and again. He is the sort of writer that seems to be right
there in the room with you too. And then of course there is the solid
wise-ness of his observations. I would hesitate to call it wisdom,
which in his case strikes me as a word at once too bloodless and too
strong (??).

Oh. yeah. the news. on the radio. It is *not* bloodless...one is never
quite ready for it...
B.

[Nigee]

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam
....

Post by Nigee
I have never come across 'Barnshoot' anywhere else either, neither
written nor overheard, or not as far as I can remember.
Btw ROBBIE did post the Spectator Review of The Lost Orwell on here
back in May 06 and I do agree with the reviewer that these letters
between Orwell and Raimbault are "amusing and weirdly courtly" though
they come to an end in sadness, with the death of Raimbault's daughter
and Orwell's condolences.
http://www.tiny.cc/NnA9p
N

Glad somebody came up with "weirdly courtly." That's kind of the phrase
I wanted, esp. for the Raimbault side of the correspondence.
There's also maybe a little Beavis & Butthead enthusiasm for writing
dirty words. (Hehheh, cool, he said "chut"!)

Heh heh
Helps to remember I guess

Post by Martha Bridegam
that writing rude words had consequences in England then -- IIRC
Orwell's own library was raided at one point though they gave back his
Joyce and Miller on the reasoning that a writer might need such things
as technical equipment without actually enjoying them.

CEJL I p 449. Letter to Victor Gollancz from Wallington 8 January
"Dear Mr Gollancz
I cannot at this moment lend you Tropic of Cancer, because my copy has
been seized. While I was writing my last book two detectives suddenly
arrived at my house with orders from the public prosecutor to seize all
books which I had 'received through the post'. A letter of mine
addressed to the Obelisk Press had been seized and opened in the post.
The police were only carrying out orders and were very nice about it,
and even the public prosecutor wrote and said that he understood that
as a writer I might have a need for books which it was illegal to
possess. On these grounds he sent me back certain books, e.g. Lady
Chatterley's Lover, but it appears that Miller's books have not been in
print long enough to become respectable."
WJ West, in 'The Larger Evils. Nineteen Eighty-Four - The Truth Behind
the Satire", uses this incident as the basis for his chapter 'A Raid in
the Country' and speculates that Orwell must have had some special
"pull" to avoid prosecution.

Oops, good catch. I'd thought they gave back his Miller.

Post by Nigee
Consequences do

Post by Martha Bridegam
give zip to words, like what the the Russian security services used to
add to poetry.
/M

Eh?

Until '91 or so, the political police made it dangerous to write poetry
in Russia, which made poetry exciting and romantic. Now I gather you can
write all the poetry you like and people will ignore it just like they
do over here, so long as you don't try any investigative reporting.
/M

Have you read The Larger Evils? It struck me as a wee bit speculative.
On the other hand, he seems to have made more of an effort then others
to dig around and find out just what Eileen was actually involved in at
MoI and what other goings on she might have been aware of and how all
this in turn might, plausibly, have influenced 1984.

N

[Martha Bridegam]

Post by Nigee
Have you read The Larger Evils? It struck me as a wee bit speculative.
On the other hand, he seems to have made more of an effort then others
to dig around and find out just what Eileen was actually involved in at
MoI and what other goings on she might have been aware of and how all
this in turn might, plausibly, have influenced 1984.
N

Embarrassed to say I have no clue about this book at all. What is it?

/M

[Nigee]

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee
Have you read The Larger Evils? It struck me as a wee bit speculative.
On the other hand, he seems to have made more of an effort then others
to dig around and find out just what Eileen was actually involved in at
MoI and what other goings on she might have been aware of and how all
this in turn might, plausibly, have influenced 1984.
N

Embarrassed to say I have no clue about this book at all. What is it?
/M

The Larger Evils is a book by WJ West, he of the War Broadcasts and War
Commentaries. I had never heard of it myself and only came across it
by accident in a bookshop.

He sets out to describe the influences upon Orwell that fed the
creation of 1984, including:

The raid on the cottage in Wallington and the censorship of the mails
that had been going on since Munich.
Detention without trial under regulation 18b
Censorship at the BBC
The MOI and the Anti-Lie Bureau
The struggle to get Animal Farm published
Jura as 'the golden country'

It's alright.

[Martha Bridegam]

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee
Have you read The Larger Evils? It struck me as a wee bit speculative.
On the other hand, he seems to have made more of an effort then others
to dig around and find out just what Eileen was actually involved in at
MoI and what other goings on she might have been aware of and how all
this in turn might, plausibly, have influenced 1984.
N

Embarrassed to say I have no clue about this book at all. What is it?
/M

The Larger Evils is a book by WJ West, he of the War Broadcasts and War
Commentaries. I had never heard of it myself and only came across it
by accident in a bookshop.
He sets out to describe the influences upon Orwell that fed the
The raid on the cottage in Wallington and the censorship of the mails
that had been going on since Munich.
Detention without trial under regulation 18b
Censorship at the BBC
The MOI and the Anti-Lie Bureau
The struggle to get Animal Farm published
Jura as 'the golden country'
It's alright.

Thanks. West gets such a bad rap I might have tuned it out but it sounds
good. Was the "Anti-Lie Bureau" a real entity?

/M

[Nigee]

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee
Have you read The Larger Evils? It struck me as a wee bit speculative.
On the other hand, he seems to have made more of an effort then others
to dig around and find out just what Eileen was actually involved in at
MoI and what other goings on she might have been aware of and how all
this in turn might, plausibly, have influenced 1984.
N

Embarrassed to say I have no clue about this book at all. What is it?
/M

The Larger Evils is a book by WJ West, he of the War Broadcasts and War
Commentaries. I had never heard of it myself and only came across it
by accident in a bookshop.
He sets out to describe the influences upon Orwell that fed the
The raid on the cottage in Wallington and the censorship of the mails
that had been going on since Munich.
Detention without trial under regulation 18b
Censorship at the BBC
The MOI and the Anti-Lie Bureau
The struggle to get Animal Farm published
Jura as 'the golden country'
It's alright.

Thanks. West gets such a bad rap I might have tuned it out but it sounds
good. Was the "Anti-Lie Bureau" a real entity?
/M

I think so. West gives no source in his notes and has no MOI-specific
text in his bibliography. However Googling did bring up the following
link to an academic article mentioning the anti-lie *section*.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2584/is_n2_v14/ai_15588719/pg_13

[Martha Bridegam]

Nigee wrote:
.....

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee
The Larger Evils is a book by WJ West, he of the War Broadcasts and War
Commentaries. I had never heard of it myself and only came across it
by accident in a bookshop.
He sets out to describe the influences upon Orwell that fed the
The raid on the cottage in Wallington and the censorship of the mails
that had been going on since Munich.
Detention without trial under regulation 18b
Censorship at the BBC
The MOI and the Anti-Lie Bureau
The struggle to get Animal Farm published
Jura as 'the golden country'
It's alright.

Thanks. West gets such a bad rap I might have tuned it out but it sounds
good. Was the "Anti-Lie Bureau" a real entity?
/M

I think so. West gives no source in his notes and has no MOI-specific
text in his bibliography. However Googling did bring up the following
link to an academic article mentioning the anti-lie *section*.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2584/is_n2_v14/ai_15588719/pg_13

That's quite something generally for conveying the mood. I was struck by
the reference to "the unfortunate mistake which had been made in
publicizing Haw-Haw."

Actually there was a beneficial campaign of wartime news suppression in
one area on the U.S. West Coast: the public was kept from hearing that
the Japanese military had been able to set several northwestern forest
fires using incendiary materials carried by balloons. As a result, the
Japanese thought their balloons had failed and stopped sending them.

Tragically, one of these balloon cargoes did reach the ground
undetonated near Bly, Oregon and killed six participants in a church
picnic, mostly children. I think they were the only World War II victims
of enemy action on the U.S. mainland. The memorial is in dry pine woods
above a creek at a roadside stop that is still used as a picnic area. It
is a sad little place.

/M

[Nigee]

Post by Martha Bridegam
.....

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee
The Larger Evils is a book by WJ West, he of the War Broadcasts and War
Commentaries. I had never heard of it myself and only came across it
by accident in a bookshop.
He sets out to describe the influences upon Orwell that fed the
The raid on the cottage in Wallington and the censorship of the mails
that had been going on since Munich.
Detention without trial under regulation 18b
Censorship at the BBC
The MOI and the Anti-Lie Bureau
The struggle to get Animal Farm published
Jura as 'the golden country'
It's alright.

Thanks. West gets such a bad rap I might have tuned it out but it sounds
good. Was the "Anti-Lie Bureau" a real entity?
/M

I think so. West gives no source in his notes and has no MOI-specific
text in his bibliography. However Googling did bring up the following
link to an academic article mentioning the anti-lie *section*.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2584/is_n2_v14/ai_15588719/pg_13

That's quite something generally for conveying the mood. I was struck by
the reference to "the unfortunate mistake which had been made in
publicizing Haw-Haw."
Actually there was a beneficial campaign of wartime news suppression in
one area on the U.S. West Coast: the public was kept from hearing that
the Japanese military had been able to set several northwestern forest
fires using incendiary materials carried by balloons. As a result, the
Japanese thought their balloons had failed and stopped sending them.
Tragically, one of these balloon cargoes did reach the ground
undetonated near Bly, Oregon and killed six participants in a church
picnic, mostly children. I think they were the only World War II victims
of enemy action on the U.S. mainland. The memorial is in dry pine woods
above a creek at a roadside stop that is still used as a picnic area. It
is a sad little place.
/M

I had read in passing of these Japanese balloon attacks before.
Asymetrical warfare? As compared to B-29 raids, I guess so.

I had never realised until now that Britain had carried out something
similar against Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outward

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=113444&sid=4b1b05dfbf8c3620b4e0a86e9f3f46de

[Martha Bridegam]

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam
.....

Post by Nigee

Post by Martha Bridegam

Post by Nigee
The Larger Evils is a book by WJ West, he of the War Broadcasts and War
Commentaries. I had never heard of it myself and only came across it
by accident in a bookshop.
He sets out to describe the influences upon Orwell that fed the
The raid on the cottage in Wallington and the censorship of the mails
that had been going on since Munich.
Detention without trial under regulation 18b
Censorship at the BBC
The MOI and the Anti-Lie Bureau
The struggle to get Animal Farm published
Jura as 'the golden country'
It's alright.

Thanks. West gets such a bad rap I might have tuned it out but it sounds
good. Was the "Anti-Lie Bureau" a real entity?
/M

I think so. West gives no source in his notes and has no MOI-specific
text in his bibliography. However Googling did bring up the following
link to an academic article mentioning the anti-lie *section*.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2584/is_n2_v14/ai_15588719/pg_13

That's quite something generally for conveying the mood. I was struck by
the reference to "the unfortunate mistake which had been made in
publicizing Haw-Haw."
Actually there was a beneficial campaign of wartime news suppression in
one area on the U.S. West Coast: the public was kept from hearing that
the Japanese military had been able to set several northwestern forest
fires using incendiary materials carried by balloons. As a result, the
Japanese thought their balloons had failed and stopped sending them.
Tragically, one of these balloon cargoes did reach the ground
undetonated near Bly, Oregon and killed six participants in a church
picnic, mostly children. I think they were the only World War II victims
of enemy action on the U.S. mainland. The memorial is in dry pine woods
above a creek at a roadside stop that is still used as a picnic area. It
is a sad little place.
/M

I had read in passing of these Japanese balloon attacks before.
Asymetrical warfare? As compared to B-29 raids, I guess so.
I had never realised until now that Britain had carried out something
similar against Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outward
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=113444&sid=4b1b05dfbf8c3620b4e0a86e9f3f46de

Hadn't heard of the German thing either.

You can appreciate that when researching the wartime internment of
Japanese Americans in Southern Oregon, one is repeatedly encouraged to
visit that memorial stone outside Bly. Certain folks in Southern Oregon
still believe in racial collective responsibility to the point of seeing
no difference between General Tojo and a Hood River peach farmer.

/M